This will be a follow up to my last post. I do not doubt that the founders of the United States believed in a creator. There is evidence in their writings that they believed there was a god. I’m not sure that all of them are Christians but that is irrelevant. If a group of Christians gets together and writes a document, that document is not magically endowed with the principles of Christianity. An overwhelming majority of congress members are Christians. This doesn’t mean that every piece of legislation that is churned out reflects the values taught in the Holy Bible. You wouldn’t pick up a large volume of federal tax laws and say they were written based on the principles of Christianity or the teachings of Jesus. We can agree that the authors of documents like The Declaration of Independence and The U.S. Constitution believed in a creator god. That much is obvious. In fact they believed our rights were given to us by a creator. At the time, there was no alternative explanation for the origins of life and human beings. It would be extremely bizarre for them to believe otherwise. What we do not find in these documents is a reference to any specific god. Even if all the founders were Christians (which I doubt), there is no mention of that in any of the documents. They purposely represented god in a way that is vague and open to interpretation. It’s clear they did not intend to exclude any particular religious view from these documents. The idea that The Declaration of Independence itself is a Christian document and as such proves that the idea of individual human rights is a Christian principle is ridiculous. There is no indication in the document that it was intended to be a religious document. The fact that it mentions a god does not make it a religious document. If president Obama thanks god or asks for god’s blessing in a speech that does not magically transform his speech into a religious sermon. It is very clear that the founders of this nation thought that a person’s religious preference was a personal matter. At the time it was written, the U.S. Constitution was heavily criticized specifically because it did not declare Christianity as the official religion of the nation and because it specifically bans requirements for individuals to pass religious tests to hold office. At the time such tests were rather common. What are the principles that this nation was founded on? A few examples would be freely elected leaders, a government whose power is derived from the consent of the governed, equal and inalienable individual rights (at least for white men). None of these ideas come from The Holy Bible. Any claim that these ideas were assimilated into Christianity proves my point that Christianity has provided nothing new or unique in terms of morals, ethics, economics, government, or human rights. It has provided nothing of value to humanity that has not or could not come from a secular source.The "teachings" of the Holy Bible do not present any wisdom that any human being living at the time couldn't have thought up.
If these ideas are not Christian, what are they, Buddhist? Did the Buddhists settle America?
Here is a quote from George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation. Did you know that the Thanksgiving was created by Congress so that all the American people could pray to God in order to give him thanks?
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.
Yes, it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge God. So sayeth George Washington.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - because somehow George Washington himself formed the United States government and he is the sole author of all the founding documents.
The ideas didn't come from Buddhists. They came from human beings. They were influenced by the ideas of many different people. Some who were Christians others who were not. You cannot claim that any idea a Christian has thought of is now a Christian principle. None of these ideas are found in The Holy Bible.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - And if you have to go back to the first settlers to make your point you might as well go one step further and prove that the nation was founded on native American principles.
@AtheistInfidel - This is you going back to the first settlers and Founders of America:
What are the principles that this nation was founded on?
My comments addressed your question.
@AtheistInfidel - George Washington is one of the Founding Fathers and the first President of the United States. His influence on American ideals cannot be underestimated.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I have already acknowledged that the founders of this nation were Christian. I am proposing the idea that they consciously and purposely left their specific religious beliefs out of the founding documents in spite of the fact that they themselves were Christians. You previously tried to claim that The Declaration of Independence is a Christian document simply because it mentions a god and was written by Christians. The idea simply does not stand up to scrutiny.
@AtheistInfidel - American government must necessarily be secular because a theocracy is a tyranny. And American government is weak so as to insure liberty.
But Christian values, which include reason, and the idea that religion is necessary for happiness and good government, are integral to the Founding.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I can see we do not disagree on U.S. History. I simply disagree with the idea that reason and individual liberties are rooted in Christianity.
Good post.
P.S. If I were you, I'd delete the moron's comments and block him. He's useless. But hey, it's your blog. I laughed at him at first, but the joke wore thin pretty quickly. So, he's not even good for a laugh anymore.
@AtheistInfidel - Liberty and reason are matters of Natural Law, the knowledge of which was preserved by Christianity.
The Christian West is the only civilization in human history with such fully developed ideas of liberty, human rights and reason.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I find it pointless to debate with someone when I am unsure if they actually believe the garbage they are spewing out.
@AtheistInfidel - I am absolutely sure that what you and your very angry friend Hector are spewing is garbage.
That's why provided you a list of source material written by the Founders of America. I derived my thinking from of some of the greatest minds in history.
Where is the source of your ideas?
I'll bet you don't even know. You simply have an opinion that you feel strongly about.
Comments (13)
If these ideas are not Christian, what are they, Buddhist? Did the Buddhists settle America?
Here is a quote from George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclaimation. Did you know that the Thanksgiving was created by Congress so that all the American people could pray to God in order to give him thanks?
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.Yes, it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge God. So sayeth George Washington.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - because somehow George Washington himself formed the United States government and he is the sole author of all the founding documents.
The ideas didn't come from Buddhists. They came from human beings. They were influenced by the ideas of many different people. Some who were Christians others who were not. You cannot claim that any idea a Christian has thought of is now a Christian principle. None of these ideas are found in The Holy Bible.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - And if you have to go back to the first settlers to make your point you might as well go one step further and prove that the nation was founded on native American principles.
@AtheistInfidel - This is you going back to the first settlers and Founders of America:
What are the principles that this nation was founded on?My comments addressed your question.
@AtheistInfidel - George Washington is one of the Founding Fathers and the first President of the United States. His influence on American ideals cannot be underestimated.
@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I have already acknowledged that the founders of this nation were Christian. I am proposing the idea that they consciously and purposely left their specific religious beliefs out of the founding documents in spite of the fact that they themselves were Christians. You previously tried to claim that The Declaration of Independence is a Christian document simply because it mentions a god and was written by Christians. The idea simply does not stand up to scrutiny.
@AtheistInfidel - American government must necessarily be secular because a theocracy is a tyranny. And American government is weak so as to insure liberty.
But Christian values, which include reason, and the idea that religion is necessary for happiness and good government, are integral to the Founding.@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I can see we do not disagree on U.S. History. I simply disagree with the idea that reason and individual liberties are rooted in Christianity.
Good post.
P.S. If I were you, I'd delete the moron's comments and block him. He's useless. But hey, it's your blog.
I laughed at him at first, but the joke wore thin pretty quickly. So, he's not even good for a laugh anymore.
@AtheistInfidel - Liberty and reason are matters of Natural Law, the knowledge of which was preserved by Christianity.
The Christian West is the only civilization in human history with such fully developed ideas of liberty, human rights and reason.@sometimestheycomebackanyway - I find it pointless to debate with someone when I am unsure if they actually believe the garbage they are spewing out.
@AtheistInfidel - I am absolutely sure that what you and your very angry friend Hector are spewing is garbage.
That's why provided you a list of source material written by the Founders of America. I derived my thinking from of some of the greatest minds in history.Where is the source of your ideas?
I'll bet you don't even know. You simply have an opinion that you feel strongly about.
good post....very thought provoking.